[00:00:00:00 - 00:00:02:00]
(Upbeat Music)

[00:00:02:00 - 00:00:06:12]
Speaker 1
You mean to tell me it's been on backwards the whole time?

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(Audience Applauding)

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Catherine
I'm Catherine. I'm a 59 year old mother of seven and I'm a Gigi to three. My journey has been messy, meaningful and full of pivots. Everything changed when I shifted my perspective and turned my sweater around. Join me on this never ending journey of entertaining the what ifs, finding your voice and breaking free from limitations. It's time to live authentically with no itchy tag. This is where I'll spill the tea about me and I'll invite others to the room.

[00:00:39:20 - 00:00:41:03]
Catherine
Welcome to Backward Sweater.

[00:00:42:10 - 00:00:49:21]
Speaker 1
I take a few steps for maybe one too sad I've got a backwards sweater and it finally fits

[00:00:49:21 - 00:00:50:06]
Catherine
right

[00:00:52:05 - 00:01:09:02]
Catherine
You know, it's funny when I was encouraged to make a podcast, I thought to myself, why would anyone want to sit and listen to me? I pondered this a lot as I inched into this space and I started asking people questions, actually started listening to their stories.

[00:01:10:17 - 00:01:25:18]
Catherine
People are really interesting. Each person holds so many lessons for themselves and others. The collective experience of sharing these and listening builds so much empathy and so much courage. It also builds that connection and the support that we need.

[00:01:26:20 - 00:01:56:11]
Catherine
I think many times people show us what is possible through their stories. When I started listening to other people's stories and I was inspired by them, I decided that it would be okay for me to share my story as well. Once I decided that there was an alignment to my passion and my mission and my purpose, started thinking about my life, I started to try to think of my life in graphics or metaphors. Then the flood of ideas that filled my mind were incredible and sometimes quite overwhelming.

[00:01:57:17 - 00:02:14:00]
Catherine
I kind of knew I was on the right path, however I didn't know how to make sense of it. And I'd never done this before. My book isn't finished. I don't have a lot of followers on Instagram. I don't even have a website. So how will this work?

[00:02:15:01 - 00:02:20:12]
Catherine
Guess what? I have no idea. And sitting here doing this now, I still have no idea.

[00:02:21:14 - 00:02:28:00]
Catherine
But my fuel to move forward came when the producer here asked me who I was talking to.

[00:02:29:04 - 00:02:30:16]
Catherine
He asked, who's your audience?

[00:02:32:04 - 00:02:42:16]
Catherine
I think I quickly named a girl named Danielle in her mid 40s, blah, blah, blah. Then I stopped and I said, no, no, no, no. I'm talking to my younger self.

[00:02:43:16 - 00:03:53:12]
Catherine
I'm talking to her because she needs me. At that point, that was it. That's all I needed to do or no to move this forward. I didn't wait for everything to be perfect, to have a perfect business model or to have the right amount of money or have everything on a perfect timeline continuum. I just finally showed up to her without hesitation because my younger self needed me to say, you have a voice and you can open your mouth and you can share it. You have a soul, you have a mind, and you don't need to be silenced. So here I am, ready to share my story in this lifetime and how I have turned lemons into lemonade. I have such a rich life and I've been able to see the beauty in it. I've navigated plot twists and figured out that my sweater, which is my life, was kind of on backwards, which doesn't mean anything that I went through wasn't perfectly made for me. It was just that it took me a long time to figure out I wasn't being myself and I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin.

[00:03:54:16 - 00:05:54:13]
Catherine
Once I got that dialed in and found my voice, the sweater now feels like my best friend. The funny thing about the metaphor is once I decided to go all in, I had put on a J. Crew sweater and I was standing in my closet and it just didn't feel right. Now, mind you, just that I had a J. Crew sweater is mind boggling because I have lived in poverty most of my adult life and J. Crew was not something I could afford. So there's that. But I noticed that the tag was in the front. This sweater is the exact sweater that's in the cover picture because there's so much, there's so many layers to this story. But it felt like it was not meant to be worn this way. It was still a sweater, but it didn't feel right. And that's the way my life has felt. All of my adult life, I felt like I was living in a way that didn't align with who I really was deep inside. In many ways, I put on a facade, but I just simply switched that sweater around that day in my closet and it actually felt like bliss. There was no itch. There was no awkwardness. It was perfect. And then I thought to myself in my closet that one day, gosh, it's just like my life. I often wonder who will listen to my story. I often wonder who it will impact as I move through the different plot twists of my life. So I have to start at the beginning. I was born to really good people. I had a dad and a mom. One was from Chicago with money, even had a maid and one from the other side of the tracks in Decatur, Illinois. One was Jewish and one was Latter-day Saints, kind of a Mormon-ish spin on it. This upbringing along with a more authoritarian hand created constructs, beliefs and norms within which I created my lived experience.

[00:05:55:18 - 00:05:59:01]
Catherine
I wanna be really clear as I move through my storytelling

[00:06:00:02 - 00:06:16:12]
Catherine
that I love my parents and I have so much grace after raising seven kids to some of the things that I experienced as a child. And I look at them as the perfect parents for me and all the lessons that I lived through in this lifetime were perfect.

[00:06:17:18 - 00:06:31:10]
Catherine
So as I grew up, I created the story through those constructs that there was no sex before marriage. If you did that, you were in what Catholics called mortal sin and you would burn in hell. I never missed church.

[00:06:32:18 - 00:08:55:16]
Catherine
And if you have your own opinion about something, you would get in trouble. Interracial couples were not allowed because marriage was hard enough. And if you throw race into the mix, that would be more difficult. Never play the lottery because you're stealing from people. Do not think progressively or think critically. And so I became silenced because I wanted to question all of those things. In my curiosity, I fell into the path that aligned with praise. I fell into the path that aligned with overachieving so that I would be looked at as doing the right thing. I found a partner that would make me religious. I found the path that would keep me from getting into trouble. I did not have sex before I was married because I didn't want my dad to find out and I didn't wanna get pregnant. So out of fear, I took on those beliefs. I did not own those beliefs. I did them because it was told to me that that's what I was supposed to do. I played the part. I also played the police for other people, letting them know what they were doing wrong as well. I played the game. I was the judger. Maybe I was thinking that that was my role. For all the people that I judged in that time, you know who you are. We've had those conversations and I've asked for forgiveness. But I remember when we would pray as a family in the car, we would pray the rosary and we would have to pray the rosary before we could have snacks. And you know, I was a snacker, so I wanted to make sure I get snacks. So I would pray the rosary. And while we were praying the rosary, I would not be thinking of the things I was supposed to be thinking about. When you pray the rosary, I was thinking of my next snack or a budget or what kind of how I was gonna make next week for dinner or who was that faceless man that was gonna ride in on a white pony and take me to a beautiful ball and make me feel really pretty. I was not praying the rosary. I was actually pretending. So I learned to switch. I kind of learned to code switch. If I was with my religious friends, I could act religious. And if I was with my friends that weren't religious, I could act not religious. You know, they always say it takes two people. And I've thought long and hard about that and the failure of my marriage. And I think about how I showed up differently as well.

[00:08:56:17 - 00:09:42:01]
Catherine
And although I moved through my marriage with kindness, and I believe that my former spouse would say the same, and I was a very good spouse, it wasn't exactly who I was meant to be. So in that sense, you know, that is where I take responsibility for that part. But I didn't know that then. There are a few things I knew of certainty that I never lost my voice on, places that I was not silent. And for those places being true to myself, I am proud of myself. I never backed down on certain things. I was able to speak that truth from an early age and no one could talk me out of that. There was utter alignment with my heart and my soul. I always knew that I wanted to be married.

[00:09:43:07 - 00:10:06:21]
Catherine
I wanted a love that was filled with laughter, surprises, tenderness, chivalry, sex, because I didn't have any before I was married. And I was really hot too. Back in the day, I wanted to be the Kool-Aid house where all of the kids came, and I wanted to be the place where everyone gathered and everybody felt safe. I saw my life as simple but full of joy.

[00:10:08:00 - 00:10:43:18]
Catherine
And as I moved through life and navigated the systems that I had created, I had two lives, my outside life and my inside life. The one that compiled, the one that went somewhere else in my head, for instance, I was engaged to the man I married, but I really felt like I was better suited for this other guy. He was the best friend of mine. He was funny. I was my real self with him. But I thought that that other guy that I was supposed to marry was holier, and that was the right thing to do, to marry the person who showed up as the person that I needed to be in this lifetime.

[00:10:44:19 - 00:10:56:13]
Catherine
Even my friends questioned that, that I wasn't my real self. And hindsight, they have those conversations with me that I was my real self with this other guy.

[00:10:57:14 - 00:11:40:16]
Catherine
Now, the other guy was not asking me to marry him, but we were the best of friends, and I loved him. Being my authentic self around him allowed me to feel safe. He was kind of more like me. He was spicy and spiritual. He would sometimes throw a cuss word in there, sometimes miss church, and that was more me. But I chose the safe choice because I thought that was the right choice, and I thought it was the choice that would make my parents happy. And again, like I mentioned, I do not have one regret. I would do it over and over and over again, just so I could have my children. But I see where I lost my voice in this process. I see where I forsake myself,

[00:11:41:16 - 00:11:47:06]
Catherine
and I silenced who I was in an effort to meet all the criteria of the construct.

[00:11:48:18 - 00:12:22:06]
Catherine
My sweater was on backwards. I always knew it deep inside, but I was afraid to switch it. I didn't have the strength or the bravery that it took or the courage to turn it around because I didn't want to be the person that wasn't getting married right out of college. I didn't want to be the person that was left behind in this construct that we created. So I got married. I had five children, beautiful, beautiful children. I birthed them in poverty.

[00:12:23:13 - 00:12:46:19]
Catherine
We were so poor, and life was really kind of hard, but my kids were my life. I stayed at home, and I did not care that I couldn't have much or see my family. In fact, I have not ever spent all the day with my family, except for one, over the course of 34 years,

[00:12:48:02 - 00:13:15:05]
Catherine
I was so trying to be a good wife and loving my kids. And I would think of my former spouse would agree as well, but this was all to my detriment. I really didn't get anything in return, and he would probably agree with that as well. The beautiful part about all of this process is doing the work that distances you from the pain of the severing of a commitment is that time heals.

[00:13:16:15 - 00:13:20:18]
Catherine
All the mess that goes with it, the frustration, the anger, the hurt, the alienation,

[00:13:22:04 - 00:13:33:20]
Catherine
time can take your hand and walk you through the valleys. It passes, and you can look back and see where you could have spoken up, where you could have held a boundary and demanded that things not be done a certain way.

[00:13:35:12 - 00:14:26:00]
Catherine
I have learned hard, hard lessons with the ending of my marriage, an ending that was not an easy decision, but an ending that I hold as the one that made the decision. I prayed my way out, and I never, ever wanted to make a mistake in the process. And I also felt really, really bad for my children, because in this process, I was changing the trajectory of their history, their story, their forever. My decision was creating a construct and a belief for them. It was like I was handing them an adverse experience, a traumatic experience that taints their view of the world and everything around them, and everything that I'd preached about, love and commitment, Catholicism, Catholics don't do this, the sacredness of marriage.

[00:14:27:11 - 00:14:32:20]
Catherine
I was going against that, and they had to see their mom give up.

[00:14:34:18 - 00:14:37:08]
Catherine
I think till this day, until the day that I die,

[00:14:38:14 - 00:14:42:14]
Catherine
that will be the most disappointing part of my life.

[00:14:43:14 - 00:14:45:20]
Catherine
The hurt that I caused my kids,

[00:14:47:00 - 00:15:04:16]
Catherine
I recognized divorce happens every day. Women get on social media, they brag about it, they throw parties, they're excited for their single life, they're excited for what's next. They have lots of tainted colorful words to speak about with their former spouse,

[00:15:05:20 - 00:15:11:00]
Catherine
but I don't ever, ever want to take the stance of being the poster child for a divorced woman.

[00:15:12:15 - 00:15:42:09]
Catherine
I remember one night when I was sitting in my new house in Walla Walla, Washington, with women that I didn't really know, they started talking about divorce. We were playing "Bunko," and I was really poor, and I remember thinking, I'm so embarrassed by this house, I don't even have chairs for everybody, but one of the ladies said to all of us, "50% of marriages end in divorce, "so that means half of us will be divorced." And I was like, "Never will that happen to me."

[00:15:43:11 - 00:15:46:18]
Catherine
Until it happens, years later, I became the statistic.

[00:15:47:23 - 00:16:00:00]
Catherine
So getting divorced, when you make $27,000 a year, you're Catholic, you have no family, within a 2,000 mile radius, I relied on Google and God.

[00:16:01:00 - 00:16:18:10]
Catherine
I had a few close Catholic friends that were very supportive and a few that were not, but I just decided to push through it, and I told myself, "Two years, you will have two years, "and then people will see you in the store, "and they will forget. "I just need to put my head down, "and put one foot in front of the other, and move forward."

[00:16:19:17 - 00:16:57:00]
Catherine
My first step was to get my master's, so I could make more money, because $27,000 a year was not going to cut it. So in 2013, I moved out of the house to an addition that we had on the garage, and I told my former spouse that I was going to become financially independent, and then I would divorce. That did not go the way that I had planned, and things started moving kind of fast. And I remember when I was trying to find a home, a place to live, I was so petrified of being in a bad neighborhood, being able to protect my kids, sleeping by myself, not ever doing this in my adult life alone.

[00:16:58:02 - 00:17:08:06]
Catherine
I'd gone right from college to marriage, and I lived thousands of miles away from my family, and literally didn't even have anybody to call to say, "Hey, can you watch my kids while I go do XYZ?"

[00:17:09:07 - 00:17:35:16]
Catherine
So trying to figure it all out on my own was difficult. I had some brothers that supported me financially to make the move, and for that, I am forever grateful, because I could not have done it without that help. I literally could not have moved out and gotten the house that I did without the financial and emotional support of my brothers.

[00:17:36:16 - 00:18:16:07]
Catherine
I was able to find a really beautiful home, actually, something I dreamed about in my mind, because remember, I was very poor, and to be able to find a home on a cul-de-sac that was safe, that I felt like I could start over and have a chapter with my kids that felt good, was amazing, and I also remember the day that I had to tell the three little ones that would be living with me full-time. I remember my mouth not wanting to be able to form words, and I didn't know what to say, but it was like slow motion. I actually could remember the day, and I remember what they were wearing, I remember the looks on their faces,

[00:18:17:08 - 00:19:15:08]
Catherine
and I remember Rafe was especially sad. I remember his face, his actions, and the sick pit that I felt in the stomach, and Gemma, she was cartwheeling in the new house, and Aiden just seemed to take it in stride until it was time to go back and forth. It was a little more difficult for him, and the manifestations of the hurt that I caused them came out in all different ways, and at that time, because I was in survival mode, I don't think I noticed it. Knowing now that all behavior is communication with the knowledge that I have now, I wish I could go back with a tender hand and a hug and be more patient with those times, but we figured it out, we survived, we thrived, and I left our family home. I gave it to my former spouse, I took all the debt, and I came face to face with bankruptcy as the weight of that decision sunk me. But in all of this messy, I felt the unearthing of myself.

[00:19:16:09 - 00:20:10:17]
Catherine
I felt like I was trying to course correct a million pound ship in the frozen parts of the Arctic. I felt glimmers of my voice starting to come up for air. It was brutal, but in the fight, I will never ever forget the moments where I saw myself, who I was supposed to be, come shining through. And again, like I said, I will never ever be the poster child for divorce. I will never ever say this is great. I will never say this is easy. I went from nothing, and I had to rebuild everything on my own. But I will say finding my heart and my soul and my voice has been a gift. And the lessons along the way that have been nothing short of miraculous have made all the pain and the suffering worth it.

[00:20:11:19 - 00:21:00:12]
Catherine
From the moment that I chose to unearth myself, miracles started to happen. From making $27,000 a year to sitting in a pedicure bowl, talking to a woman who works at the school district and saying, "We need a certificated teacher to come in and help us." And I said, "I'm a certificated teacher. That doubled my income. I've got my masters, and at the same time, they needed me to do adjunct work at the college." So I added that. I was able to wrap around my school district job, and I was able to do my masters and my doctoral studies at home while my kids were sleeping. I also managed storage units. All that money was able to help me build, come back from bankruptcy, where I was able to buy a five bedroom house.

[00:21:01:14 - 00:21:34:08]
Catherine
And then I met a guy. I couldn't believe it. He was really handsome, and it was so odd. Crazy actually to be in a position where that would be something that I would ever think in a million years that would happen to me. Who wants to date a girl with seven children? Who wants to date a girl that is battered and bruised from a war that felt like I would never be valuable again, or someone would think that I would add value to their life?

[00:21:35:09 - 00:22:14:06]
Catherine
The coolest part about all of this is that I wasn't looking for it. I was at my son's football game, and I noticed this man, and I never looked at men while I was married because you didn't do that. And I looked at this man, and I was like, I don't even know how to flirt. I don't even know what to do. So I just acknowledged the fact that he was very handsome. And then I remember even my oldest daughter said something about him. And because I have two left feet, and I had no idea what or how to do, I just forgot about it. I was knee deep in school and kids, and I didn't really know how to date.

[00:22:15:06 - 00:22:29:04]
Catherine
But the next five years of my life were so fun because during that time, even though I was rebuilding, even though I had kind of a messy life, dating this man was fun.

[00:22:30:04 - 00:23:35:02]
Catherine
So how I actually ended up introducing myself to him, I'm glad that he's not here because I don't know if I'd wanna say this out loud, but I was planning and plotting to go put myself at practice with a book so I would look smart and wait till he picked up his son. So I got the book and I sat there, and I sat there, and I sat there, and then I saw him arrive, and he walked towards me. And this is the first time in 25, 28 years where so I got butterflies in my stomach. And when he walked towards me, he said, "Hello, my name is da da da da da." And I said, "Hi, I'm," you know, and so he started to chat. I was so nervous. I was making probably, I don't even remember what I said. I was so embarrassed and nervous, and I think he was nervous too. Then my older son interrupted us and started talking about motorcycles, and just like that, our conversation was over. And when I was walking to my car, I looked at him, he was in the back of his truck, and he waved at me, and that was that.

[00:23:36:03 - 00:24:43:13]
Catherine
Then I was sitting there doing homework on a Friday night, and I get a text message from a strange number, and it was him. And from that day that he texted me, there wasn't one day until his death that he didn't text me. So over the course of five years, I got a text message from that man every single solitary day. And that man made me realize that I am valuable, that I am beautiful, and I am worth it. Even though I had seven children, that man ended up being such a force in my children's life. And although we didn't present his boyfriend and girlfriend to my kids because I was really careful about that, every single one of my kids on the day that he died came to me in my home and mourned the loss of him in our lives. It was the best five years of my life, even though I was dealing with so many hard things. I came out of that more transformed and more healed, and more authentically myself than I'd ever been in my entire life.

[00:24:44:17 - 00:25:12:12]
Catherine
He allowed me to speak my truth and be who I was. He always said, "You know what? "With you having such a voice, "I can't imagine you ever being silent." He supported me. He encouraged me to always do better. And his love changed who I was. The day that he died, the guttural grief that I experienced from the great loss, another hard loss from not only me, but for my children, changed my life forever.

[00:25:13:19 - 00:25:37:19]
Catherine
I can't believe I ever hid after being loved by him, even though it was an imperfect love. It wasn't perfect. We both were coming out of hard situations. And looking back now as who I am now, he probably wouldn't even recognize me because I've grown so much because of that grief, leveraged that as well for great transformation in my life. But it was a pivotal, pivotal time.

[00:25:38:22 - 00:26:41:09]
Catherine
Then after he died, I thought, "How could there ever be anybody else for me, "going through all these situations?" And I'm finally to a place in my life that I could totally and completely be fine all by myself without another companion or man in my life. But someone else popped up about two and a half years ago. And the safety and the softness that I've been able to experience in another relationship has allowed me as a strong, overachieving woman to slow down and be safe. I'm safe. I feel safety. Or to allow someone to carry my bags. I know it's a small thing, but I've carried my bags for a long time. When someone says, "I've got them," it allows me to just kind of take a deep breath. And I have that now. And it's been over 12 years since I've been divorced. And because I have not had a lot of relationships, the ones that I have had have all taught me a lesson. And what they say is true is some are here for lessons and some are here for seasons.

[00:26:42:10 - 00:27:10:08]
Catherine
And I take all of those lessons that I've learned from those relationships, even the really, really difficult ones, the divorce and the grief. And I would do them all over again to find who I am today. I would have to say that marriage scares me because I don't wanna fail. I'm an overachiever. But I often wonder if I had been my authentic self. I'd used my voice to declare my heart. If the sweater had been on right,

[00:27:11:11 - 00:27:17:16]
Catherine
would it have made my marriage better? Or did it have to be this way for me to learn a lesson here in this earth?

[00:27:19:03 - 00:28:06:08]
Catherine
Often my dad would say to me, don't forget who you are, Susie. Now I know. And that saying means so much more to me than when he would say it when I was leaving college. Or if we had to say goodbye when I was living in Washington and he was living in Illinois. Now I don't ever forget who I am. Maybe he actually saw that I was forgetting or maybe the life lessons learned is to be who you are. And I don't know, but those words hit me so hard today. And for words that I've heard all of my life, they mean so much more to me now as my dad's in his 80s than ever before. So this is my story from the 100,000 foot level. These are the themes of my story.

[00:28:07:12 - 00:28:32:16]
Catherine
I've not yet even started to talk about the mustache, the orthotics, or the diets. And younger Catherine, I see you. And to all the other younger Catharines, stay with me. Join me next time as I continue to share my journey with a backward sweater and share with you how I turned it around. Make sure your tag is in the back and if it isn't, enjoy the itch. But most of all, don't forget who you are.

[00:28:32:16 - 00:28:38:13]
Speaker 1
There's still time now

[00:28:41:03 - 00:28:56:18]
Speaker 1
I take a few steps forward Maybe I want to decide I've got a backwards sweater And it finally fits right I take a few steps forward Maybe I want to decide I've got a backwards sweater And it finally fits right